{"id":3527,"date":"2019-11-28T14:10:39","date_gmt":"2019-11-28T14:10:39","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/education\/textbook\/fluid-therapy\/fluid-case-4\/"},"modified":"2019-12-20T15:49:38","modified_gmt":"2019-12-20T15:49:38","slug":"fluid-case-4","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/education\/textbook\/fluids-and-electrolytes\/fluid-therapy\/fluid-case-4\/","title":{"rendered":"Fluid case 4"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Use the principles described in <a href=\"http:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/education\/textbook\/fluids-and-electrolytes\/fluid-therapy\/\">Fluids basics<\/a> to approach this problem logically. Go back to those pages to look things up when necessary.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>A complicated case. But exactly the same principles apply.<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\">5 days after a liver transplant, a 48 year old man has a pyrexia of 40.8 degrees C. His charts for the last 24 hours reveal:<\/span><\/p>\n<div align=\"center\">\n<table style=\"width: 66.7742%; height: 114px;\" border=\"0\" width=\"50%\" cellspacing=\"0\" cellpadding=\"3\">\n<tbody>\n<tr style=\"height: 41px;\">\n<td style=\"height: 41px; width: 48.6255%; background-color: #e6f7ed;\" width=\"50%\">urine output:<br \/>\ndrain output:<br \/>\nnasogastric output:<br \/>\nblood transfusion:<br \/>\nIV crystalloids:<br \/>\noral fluids:<\/td>\n<td style=\"height: 41px; width: 51.3745%; background-color: #e6f7ed;\">2.7 litres<br \/>\n525 ml<br \/>\n1.475 litres<br \/>\n2 units (350 ml each)<br \/>\n2.5 litres<br \/>\n500 ml<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\">On examination he has a tachycardia. His supine BP is OK, but you can\u2019t sit him up to check his erect BP. His serum [Na+] is 140 mmol\/l.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">Questions:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<table>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td style=\"background-color: #e6f7ed;\">\n<ol>\n<li>How much IV fluid is he likely to need over the next 24h, assuming these outputs remain the same? (it is of course unlikely that they will be quite the same)<\/li>\n<li>What fluids would you use?<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">Hints:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<div id=\"q2\" class=\"answer\">\n<div align=\"left\">\n<div id=\"q5\" class=\"answer\">\n<div class=\"su-accordion su-u-trim\">\n<div class=\"su-spoiler su-spoiler-style-default su-spoiler-icon-plus su-spoiler-closed\" data-scroll-offset=\"0\" data-anchor-in-url=\"no\"><div class=\"su-spoiler-title\" tabindex=\"0\" role=\"button\"><span class=\"su-spoiler-icon\"><\/span>How to approach the first part of the question (click to expand\/collapse)<\/div><div class=\"su-spoiler-content su-u-clearfix su-u-trim\">\n<table>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td style=\"background-color: #e6f7ed;\">\n<div id=\"q10\" class=\"answer\">\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">1. Add up the fluid balance over the last 24h<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: disc;\">\n<li>There are multiple losses and gains to consider here<\/li>\n<li>Remember insensible losses &#8211; are these likely to be normal?<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">2. Predicting the next 24h<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: disc;\">\n<li>Remember that requirements today include making up yesterday&#8217;s deficit<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">3. <\/span><\/strong><i>Now go back to the question and decide how much fluid he will need.<\/i><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<div id=\"q2\" class=\"answer\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"su-spoiler su-spoiler-style-default su-spoiler-icon-plus su-spoiler-closed\" data-scroll-offset=\"0\" data-anchor-in-url=\"no\"><div class=\"su-spoiler-title\" tabindex=\"0\" role=\"button\"><span class=\"su-spoiler-icon\"><\/span>How to approach the second part of the question (click to expand\/collapse)<\/div><div class=\"su-spoiler-content su-u-clearfix su-u-trim\">\n<table>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td style=\"background-color: #e6f7ed;\">\n<div id=\"q10\" class=\"answer\">\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">1. Consider the nature of his deficit<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: disc;\">\n<li>Nasogastric losses &#8211; high in &#8230;&#8230; (<a href=\"http:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/education\/textbook\/fluids-and-electrolytes\/fluid-therapy\/\">revise losses<\/a>\u00a0or see <a href=\"http:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/handbook\/unithdbk\/fluid-therapy\/\">table in fluid therapy guide<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>Drain losses &#8211; directly from extracellular compartment &#8211; high in &#8230;. (<a href=\"http:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/education\/textbook\/fluids-and-electrolytes\/fluid-therapy\/\">revise compartments<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">2. Consider his clinical state and the size of the deficit<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: disc;\">\n<li>He has fallen behind on fluid replacement and has ongoing substantial losses.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">3. <\/span><\/strong><i>Now go back to the question and decide what type of fluids to use.<\/i><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<div id=\"q2\" class=\"answer\">\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div id=\"q2\" class=\"answer\">\n<div align=\"left\">\n<div id=\"q5\" class=\"answer\">\n<div id=\"q2\" class=\"answer\">\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">Answer:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<div class=\"su-spoiler su-spoiler-style-default su-spoiler-icon-plus su-spoiler-closed\" data-scroll-offset=\"0\" data-anchor-in-url=\"no\"><div class=\"su-spoiler-title\" tabindex=\"0\" role=\"button\"><span class=\"su-spoiler-icon\"><\/span>When you have written down your answer - click here to reveal ours <\/div><div class=\"su-spoiler-content su-u-clearfix su-u-trim\">\n<table style=\"border-collapse: collapse; width: 100%;\">\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td style=\"width: 100%; background-color: #e6f7ed;\">\n<div align=\"left\">\n<div id=\"q6\" class=\"answer\">\n<div align=\"left\">\n<div id=\"q9\" class=\"answer\">\n<div id=\"q12\" class=\"answer\">\n<p>This would be a tough Q for an undergraduate medicine exam.<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">1. Fluid balance<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: disc;\">\n<li>As is often the case with complex surgical patients, he has multiple sources of luid loss. In each case, urine, drain or tube, the fluid lost will be a mixture of fluid and solutes. Drain fluid will have an electrolyte content very similar to plasma. Nasogastric fluid is chloride-rich.<\/li>\n<li>His obvious losses ( urine + drain + NG tube ) total 4.7 litres.<\/li>\n<li>His insensible losses are higher than normal because of his fever, say 800-1000 ml, giving a <strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">total loss of 5.5-5.7 litres.<\/span><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>His <strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">total intake was 3.7 litres<\/span><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>He is therefore <strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">deficient by 1.8-2.0 litres.<\/span><\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Assuming that his total losses for this day are similar to those of the day before, he will need about <b>7.5 litres<\/b> (a further day&#8217;s losses plus yesterday&#8217;s deficit; 5.5 + 2.0)in order to become euvolaemic.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span><span style=\"color: #993300;\">Indicative marking scheme: 6 marks for 7-8.0 litres. 3 marks for 6.0-8.5 litres.<\/span> <\/span><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">2. What type of fluids?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<div align=\"left\">\n<ul style=\"list-style-type: disc;\">\n<li>He will need a mixture of fluids.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/handbook\/unithdbk\/fluid-therapy\/\">Resuscitation fluids <\/a>and\/or further blood in order to fill the intravascular compartment and maintain organ perfusion.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/handbook\/unithdbk\/fluid-therapy\/\">Replacement fluids<\/a> to replace water and solute losses.<\/li>\n<li>Glucose-based fluids to make up the rest. He would become very sodium overloaded and hypernatraemic if all replacement was sodium-based.<\/li>\n<li>He is likely to need potassium supplements but you would be guided by biochemistry results here.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\">Indicative marking scheme: 4 marks for an answer that covers these principles, and &#8216;front-loads&#8217; fluid replacement to catch up on yesterday&#8217;s deficit.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">3. In real life<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>A case of this complexity will require repeated re-evaluation, and adjustment of his fluids throughout the day with serial blood tests in order to guide your infusion rate, choice of fluid, and potassium supplementation.<\/p>\n<p>Provision of nutrition would be an important consideration in this patient. Nasogastric feeding is clearly not viable yet so some of your IV input could be an IV feeding solution.<\/p>\n<p>If you can follow this one, you&#8217;ve cracked it!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<div align=\"left\">\n<div id=\"q6\" class=\"answer\">\n<div align=\"left\">\n<div align=\"left\">\n<table>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td style=\"background-color: #e6f7ed;\"><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">Maximum marks for this question 10; pass mark 5<\/span><br \/>\n<\/strong><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Use the principles described in Fluids basics to approach this problem logically. Go back to those pages to look things up when necessary. A complicated case. But exactly the same principles apply. 5 days after a liver transplant, a 48 year old man has a pyrexia of 40.8 degrees C.\u2026<\/p>\n<p> <a class=\"continue-reading-link\" href=\"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/education\/textbook\/fluids-and-electrolytes\/fluid-therapy\/fluid-case-4\/\"><span>Continue reading<\/span><i class=\"crycon-right-dir\"><\/i><\/a> <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"parent":3449,"menu_order":96,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_lmt_disableupdate":"","_lmt_disable":"","footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-3527","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/3527","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3527"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/3527\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3833,"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/3527\/revisions\/3833"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/3449"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/edren.org\/ren\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3527"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}